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Post by moonshadow on Oct 3, 2005 13:38:44 GMT -5
Essentially a thread for the teachings of Master Yoda of the Old Jedi Order, where we sit in awe of his age-old wit, sly tricks and general wisdom.
Or, we can dice up his philosophy.
;D
Now, here is a curiousity
"When you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your path!"
From The Empire Strikes Back.
And then, from Yoda : Dark Rendevous
"Yoda carries a darkness" - Yoda himself.
Added to the fact that Yoda studied Sith Holocrons to find Drommund Kas and three dozen other deleted Sith systems....
Added to the fact that Yoda expertly handled Count Dooku's Sith lightning.....
Added to the sheer aggressive style of Ataro that Yoda uses - hurling himself at his foes.....
Was Yoda on the Dark Path, like Mace Windu and possibly Obi-Wan Kenobi???
-originally posted by sinrebirth at HQ1
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Post by moonshadow on Oct 3, 2005 13:40:17 GMT -5
First of all, I never knew that Mace had once been captivated by the Dark Side. Very interesting. *ponders*
As to Yoda, I would not be at all surprised. It seems that many of the most powerful Jedi have been mesmerized and led astray at some time.... It's kinda cool to think of a Dark Yoda.
-originally posted by corellian_chic242 (Moonshadow) at HQ1
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Well, Mace didn't get captivated by the dark, so much as he toed the line with his Vaapad, and crossed the line when he went to execute Palpatine in ROTS.
At that point. Mace = Dark. From many a POV.
-originally posted by sinrebirth at HQ1
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POV? I think I missed that last time I went through the dictionary. Whats it mean?
-originally posted by Sabre at HQ1
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Point of View.
And adding to my 'Yoda is dark' theory - Its a sith technique to lob items and rants at someone as they fight.
ie "If so powerful you are, why leave?"
ie Lobbing a senate piece at Siddie.
He was on the edge in AOTC - he did lob lightning back at Dooku and talk tough then too.
-originally posted by sinrebirth at HQ1
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Post by moonshadow on Oct 3, 2005 13:42:42 GMT -5
POV, means point of view.
I find this to be biased and liberal, well done. What jedi is untainted? No one is perfect, though Kenobi was pretty good, as was Yoda. Think of the power Yoda could have wielded. yet he shunned it.
Better what we learn, from struggles, than to accuse and belittle their struggle.
-orininally posted by Fred at HQ1
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I do not accuse, I draw attention to Yoda's faults.
I find some of the things he does inexcusable and cold, true, but i do not belittle his struggle.
But i do like drawing clear lines around the flaws of the PT Jedi. For the record.
Though Mr. Bitter and Unhappy Kenobi from the OT is curious also.
-originally posted by sinrebirth at HQ1
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Inexcusable and cold? Yoda? I don't think so....
And wouldn't you be bitter and unhappy if your only padawan became a monster?
-originally posted by corellian_chic242 (Moonshadow) at HQ1
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Yes, but Obi Wan isn't supposed to be. He's a Jedi. Apparently.
Well, cold from a certain POV.
-originally posted by sinrebirth at HQ1
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Post by moonshadow on Oct 3, 2005 13:44:56 GMT -5
Yes, he is a Jedi, but he is also human. No amount of training and conditioning can completely quench so strong a reaction.
-originally posted by corellian_chic242 (Moonshadow) at HQ1
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But bitterness and anger lead directly to the dark side. As does arrogance. And Obi-Wan has reams of those
-originally posted by sinrebirth at HQ1
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Post by sinrebirth on Oct 3, 2005 14:29:59 GMT -5
I could hug you, Moonshadow
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Post by moonshadow on Oct 3, 2005 17:55:54 GMT -5
*blushes* Just doing my job.  Anyway. Bitterness and anger.... They do lead to the dark side, but Obi-Wan had already been there. And he wasn't as much bitter and angry as he was sad. |
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Post by sinrebirth on Oct 4, 2005 4:49:53 GMT -5
Hmmm, sad and resigned, I suppose. Like Darth Vader was to his fate....?
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Post by moonshadow on Oct 4, 2005 10:00:10 GMT -5
At first, no. But I believe near the end, when he was chasing Luke around the galaxy, he was beginning to feel that way. Beginning to have doubts about his service to the Emperor, but knowing that he can't escape it.
Unless he kills him, of course.
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Post by sinrebirth on Oct 4, 2005 13:03:51 GMT -5
Well, in the ROTS novel, Vader is very resigned at the end - accepting his fate and embracing it.
He doesn't *want* to kill Palpatine till Luke reappears, as Palpatine is all he has....
From Vader's POV in the novel.
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Post by moonshadow on Oct 4, 2005 15:51:06 GMT -5
Ah, well. Since I haven't read the novels, it's understandable that I don't have the access to Vader's private thoughts that you do.  |
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fred
Knight 
Posts: 346
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Post by fred on Oct 4, 2005 18:21:07 GMT -5
I wouldn't say that he was "all he had." I await the future novels to see Vaders development, because I didn't see that from the novel.
I think one thing overlooked in this, is that those things were from Yoda himself. I know if I was talking about me, I'd be hard on myself. Others usually say I'm too hard; perhaps Yoda was too. Perhaps he said "forever will it dominate" because he felt it had his.
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Post by sinrebirth on Jan 19, 2006 18:21:38 GMT -5
There was a line towards the end of the ROTS novel - "The shadow was all he had" - During the scene Vader is suited, he apparently tries to kill Sid and decides against it while trashing the room.
The later Vader novels - Dark Lord - show Vader eventually growing towards fighting Sid.
Well, I suppose Yoda felt that way. He lived in a world where you measured light against dark. Of course it dominates you. That and the literal clouding of the Force with the dark side - Yoda had been dominated by it, dragged from place to place fighting it, always steps behind....
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fred
Knight
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Post by fred on Jan 23, 2006 2:44:27 GMT -5
That line can be interpreted in more than one way, to be honest. The shadow of what? His former life? His former potential?
Yoda was profoundly more aware of the dark because of his position with the Jedi, and his longer life span. Who else would see the ravages of the Dark like him?
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Post by sinrebirth on Jan 24, 2006 0:02:39 GMT -5
True. Its really just depends on your POV, as ever.
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fred
Knight
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Post by fred on Jan 24, 2006 1:03:44 GMT -5
I think it greatly does depend on it, but there are some things that are universally regarded. Murder for instance, is fairly accepted. So, justificiation has to be found. Like saying the Jedi would rebel, so they must be put down before they could.
Is it possible to unite in thought? Or will humanity forever be broken into cliques, or groups?
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Post by sinrebirth on Jan 24, 2006 3:45:12 GMT -5
Fairly accepted as evil, yes. Though the justification and punishment behind it can be taken differently, by different people.
Its possible, with the homogenisation of society. But at the cost of much what makes humans human. I'm thinking Equilibrium, yet not in terms of emotions. Though the modern world is attempting that homogenisation at the moment, though the endpoint might become a Christian Captalist world that is not Christian at all.......
Personally, I don't believe in things like good and evil and insane and enlightened. They're all point of views. There is no obvious abstract painted in the sky, setting the tone of good or evil or normal or not. Yes, there may be, but for now, there is not.
For example, several esteemed minds have simply written off Kreia, Darth Traya, as insane. Without studying her reasoning behind everything. In fact, her reasoning is sound, from a certain POVs.
Now, you may think that I am biased towards Sith, but in fact I have criticised Yoda and Mace and Obi-Wan, shown here. I don't believe in good either, as I said. Yes, their reasoning is sound, from certain POVs.
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fred
Knight
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Post by fred on Feb 11, 2006 0:53:38 GMT -5
I think you do believe in good and evil, you just don't believe in good or evil humans. I believe that it's possible for a human to be one or the other, but in general we are too lost in our own minds to realize what we truly are in the grand scheme of things.
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Post by sinrebirth on Feb 11, 2006 3:04:59 GMT -5
Good and evil, no. Too vague abstracts for me to touch. Not even absolutes.
Right and wrong, yes. Nor do I agree that good is a natural outgrowth of right. Though, if we're all right, pointing in the same direction, then we are all 'good' yes?
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fred
Knight
Posts: 346
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Post by fred on Feb 11, 2006 15:22:57 GMT -5
No, it's not a given. Should be, but isn't.
I believe evil and good are suitable descriptions. If you intentionally crush another for your gain, I consider that evil. Like I said, the majority of people are either not informed, or not paying attention to what is going on....I can't call that good or evil.
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Post by sinrebirth on Feb 11, 2006 21:11:32 GMT -5
Well done. And those who are Good and Evil you usually notice.
And, then again, Hitler was very good to his dog.
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